Curse

Ulric Druss · Jun 21, 2005, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

You have a point. These low level arenas were very good, and especially for newcomers to the game. The problem is that what should be PvP training ground and fun competition has been polluted by twinkers from day one. Players are not only using Forge armors, but also max damage weapons, very expensive runes (including Superior Vigor, or Superior Absorption) to ensure 90% victory. They are lamers who can't stand to lose and who are unable to win in a fair fight. In my opinion, these arenas should be removed from the game as they can be very frustrating for newbies. Instead, I would put various levels of PvP (beginner, average, elite) to make them more enjoyable whatever your GW experience.
If you fought your way to the Forge, you deserve to be there. As far as I understand, the problem mentioned in this thread is the so called 'taxi' phenomenon. That is to say high level warriors who are sprinting through explorables to bring low level (as in <5) characters to the forge. These lowbies are the taxi cargo. They die asap, and use the external camera to watch the runner's movie.

So, did you just not read the second part of my post?
I understand the "problem". I just don't see why it is an issue.
If a level 5 got the to Forge that way, well...that's their issue, not mine.

In my opinion, the biggest issue involved is not these low level players getting to the Forge, but what they're doing there once they arrive.

How can a level 5 character afford the armor there?
Two scenarios:

1. They have more than one character and are merely skipping around a bit, funding a new character with money left over from their higher level characters.
(Which I'm ok with...I wouldn't do it to this extreme, but I have no problem with it.)

2. They're cheating and obtaining in-game money by out-of-game means.
(This, in my opinion, is the real problem.)

kungfumonkey2 · Jun 21, 2005, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker

How about you and your band of we can't win unless we N00b bash losers all go pick on people your own size.

Said it numerous times in my threads I have never been to a low lvl arena, and would not allow anyone into my guild that did this. Dont take things out of context.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Night Daftshadow

anyway or may be they can add more of those annoying worms or add 3-4 of those giant worms that you see at the desert. now, these droknar runners will fall on their @ss and die before even making it past these worms.

There is an area of Lornars where you encounter 6 wurms, and a patrol of grawl about 15 strong.

FrogDevourer · Jun 21, 2005, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulric Druss

So, did you just not read the second part of my post?

I did, and I didn't reply as I agree about this. If someone wants to spoil his own fun, I don't care either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulric Druss

I understand the "problem". I just don't see why it is an issue.

The issue is not the forge taxi. This is a symptom. The issue is the answer to this question: "why are they running to the forge?", or more generally "why are they using RP characters and skip standard gameplay?". This is the sickness which causes the taxi symptom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulric Druss

2. They're cheating and obtaining in-game money by out-of-game means. (This, in my opinion, is the real problem.)

Simply put, you can't do anything about this. If you remove the player's stash, they'll ask for a guildie's help to twink items & gold. Unless you want to remove trading entirely, you can't prevent them from obtaining in-game money by out-of-game means.

Creston · Jun 21, 2005, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

You have a point. These low level arenas were very good, and especially for newcomers to the game. The problem is that what should be PvP training ground and fun competition has been polluted by twinkers from day one. Players are not only using Forge armors, but also max damage weapons, very expensive runes (including Superior Vigor, or Superior Absorption) to ensure 90% victory. They are lamers who can't stand to lose and who are unable to win in a fair fight. In my opinion, these arenas should be removed from the game as they can be very frustrating for newbies. Instead, I would put various levels of PvP (beginner, average, elite) to make them more enjoyable whatever your GW experience.

I honestly didn't know that twinking in the low level arenas was this rampant, but let's be honest, closing the ability to go to Droknar's through Lornar's won't solve this issue.
First of all, every twinker who already HAS his armor will still keep going back, and second, all it takes to get sup runes and top tier weaponry is another character and a storage account. How are they going to stop that then? How are they going to stop people selling max damage axes / bows / hammers in ascalon? If you want to stop twinkers, you have to stop ALL of it, including sales and storage.

The low level area of the game is being polluted by high level items, and really, if anyone thinks it's just the armor in the arenas, well, it's evident that it's not. Granted, the weapons have a requirement attached to them, but a 6-28 axe AM9 for someone with AM 6 is still going to do more damage than a 6-14 axe with requirements met.

However, there is a SUPER easy fix for the arena issue. Every character who goes into the arena has his gear stripped (and placed in temporary storage), and is given appropriate gear for his level.
This game is supposed to be about skills? Fight with skills, not loot.
Entire problem completely, irrevocably, 100% solved. The twinkers will IMMEDIATELY quit playing the low level arenas, since they have zero skill and will get slaughtered without their ph4t l3wt, and everyone can fight against everyone else on the same footing.

Simple, neh?

Creston

Creston · Jun 21, 2005, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

anyway or may be they can add more of those annoying worms or add 3-4 of those giant worms that you see at the desert. now, these droknar runners will fall on their @ss and die before even making it past these worms.

Hehe, yeah sure they will.

Actually, let's put five dozen wurms RIGHT THERE outside of Beacon's Perch, that way the runner won't have time to turn on his skills and stances.
ofcourse, it ganks anyone who wants to just go fight for fun in Lornar's, but hey, YOU are having a problem with someone having high level armor, so let's just nerf the area again.
We also need to add a lot more disenchanter critters to every mob in the game, as well as let every monster use nothing but elite skills now at no energy cost. Who cares about what it does to the rest of the PvE. See what I mean?

The end result of requests like this is :Hey, maybe we can stuff every area with a MILLION WURMS, and nobody will ever be able to walk ANYWHERE EVER AGAIN?!
WOOT!!1!11one!!

Creston

kungfumonkey2 · Jun 21, 2005, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

I got one for you... how about I give you a big wheel and I get a corvette and we see who can do the fastest 1/4 mile.

Well me being of sound judgement and mind would not choose to race you. Just like no one HAS to go into low lvl arenas. I would say nice you have a corvette, maybe someday I will have a corvette then we can race.

You people make it sound like everyone must do low lvl arenas or they are not going to enjoy they game, but wait they also have to go into low level arenas and win.

FrogDevourer · Jun 21, 2005, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creston

If you want to stop twinkers, you have to stop ALL of it, including sales and storage.

This drastic solution won't solve anything at all. What about powerful elite skills which are captured in Volcanic Island, or more generally skills that a lvl5 newcomer cannot use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creston

However, there is a SUPER easy fix for the arena issue. Every character who goes into the arena has his gear stripped (and placed in temporary storage), and is given appropriate gear for his level.

Where do I sign? This could be an alternate solution, if it can be implemented (you may underestimate the complexity of the equipment involved).

How can we get a PvP training ground that is newbie friendly? Use the account-based fame score to determine which arena you can enter, and give fame for all PvP matches, including from random arenas (and give a specific reward for Tomb player or they'll start complaining). As soon as you've earned enough fame by beating beginners, you can't enter newbie PvP areas anymore.

kungfumonkey2 · Jun 21, 2005, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Can anyone provide a screen of this alledged n00b bashing? I am sure that it has happened before, but it is one of those things that people are like "I heard it form a friend who's friend had a cousin that got n00b bashed in Ascalon". I least ways do not think of it as an epidemic. Taxi service is fine, takes away from farming, and it is a legitamite business. If you say it is not then start a petition to fire all public transportation workers in the United States. Cause according to you taking a bus down town is a CHEATING HAXOR thing to do. Everyone should have to walk no matter where they want to go. Oops sorry kids we cant take the mini-van to grandma's we have to walk 200miles cause we arent allowed to drive people other than ourselves.

Creston · Jun 21, 2005, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

This drastic solution won't solve anything at all. What about powerful elite skills which are captured in Volcanic Island, or more generally skills that a lvl5 newcomer cannot use.

It was meant sarcastically. You can't STOP twinkers in a game that allows high level content to be brought into low level areas. This has been a staple of MMORPGs since the days of MUDs.

Quote:

Where do I sign? This could be an alternate solution, if it can be implemented (you may underestimate the complexity of the equipment involved).

I don't think so, unless I'm really mistaken about the way Anet handles items and characters. If they're just database entries, a character goes into the Arena, server makes note "Character Arlen Daodanar enters the Arena, following items assigned. #3781, #99745, #12332, #24353, #23535 etc", then the game gives me a weapon based on my class (if axe mastery > 3 then spawn item #axe0001), armor based on my class (very easy, based on what's sold in the same town as the arena, so ringmail for example), and a shield if you're a warrior, or a similar collector's item outside if you're something else.
Enter the arena, fight.

When you leave the arena, the server destroys the items (or lets you keep them, they're junk anyways, and it's a nice reward for participating), hands you your loot back, and you're on your way.
This adds a bit of cost to Anet's operations (After all, you'll probably need a server and some storage space just to run that items checkin-checkout thing), but it should be pretty simple, imo.

Then again, I'm not a programmer, so don't shoot me.

Creston

How can we get a PvP training ground that is newbie friendly? Use the account-based fame score to determine which arena you can enter, and give fame for all PvP matches, including from random arenas (and give a specific reward for Tomb player or they'll start complaining). As soon as you've earned enough fame by beating beginners, you can't enter newbie PvP areas anymore.[/QUOTE]

arnansnow · Jun 21, 2005, 05:25 PM // 17:25

It could make it so that if you win the arena battle you could keep the generated items, and if you lose you don't

chalt2 · Jun 21, 2005, 05:54 PM // 17:54

This question is to each one of you individually

If I buy my own personal copy of GW so that I can get on my computer and log into the game over the internet connection that I pay for, why do I have to play the game the way you do?

Ulric Druss · Jun 21, 2005, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creston

The low level area of the game is being polluted by high level items, and really, if anyone thinks it's just the armor in the arenas, well, it's evident that it's not. Granted, the weapons have a requirement attached to them, but a 6-28 axe AM9 for someone with AM 6 is still going to do more damage than a 6-14 axe with requirements met.

I apologize in advance for getting off-topic, but I don't believe you're correct.
If you don't meet the qualifications for using a weapon, then the damage of that weapon reverts back to the base damage for a starter weapon of that class.

If you don't meet the requirement of 9 Swordsmanship for a sword that does 15-21 damage, then you can equip it, but that sword is going to do about 2-4 damage.

Am I wrong on this? I'm pretty sure I've read articles on this topic on this very site.

salja Wachi · Jun 21, 2005, 06:16 PM // 18:16

you are correct my friend. if you do not meet the requirement then you will get no benefit from wielding that weapon

Creston · Jun 21, 2005, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by salja Wachi

you are correct my friend. if you do not meet the requirement then you will get no benefit from wielding that weapon

Oh, I thought that it was a gradual scale, I stand corrected. it seems to me that my warrior did more damage as my AM went up, even though I didn't have the requirements yet, but I probably just saw the effects of my improved Axe mastery skill.

Even then, there's max weapons out there with lower requirements than others. My solution for the arena problem still stands.

Creston

hohe · Jun 21, 2005, 06:51 PM // 18:51

well, a friend of mine in the guild said he got rushed to droknars and then he asked everyone in the guild for 1k.. i was so mad cause he was asking other people for the money, so i was like go farm some of ur own money and i kicked him off the guild, i do think they are stupid, and that was his first character

kungfumonkey2 · Jun 21, 2005, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by hohe

well, a friend of mine in the guild said he got rushed to droknars and then he asked everyone in the guild for 1k.. i was so mad cause he was asking other people for the money, so i was like go farm some of ur own money and i kicked him off the guild, i do think they are stupid, and that was his first character

You kicked someone off your guild because they asked you for money for some armor? Then you turned him out on his own and were like go farm your own money?! You would never get this from my guild. Although 1K from every member seems a little extreme, in our guild we help each other buy new armor all the time. We give gold and materials. Why? Because what ever makes my guild member stronger makes my guild stronger. If I find a Gold weapon, you know what I do? I give it to a guildie I dont sell it for a profit.

Give me the IGN of that guild member you kicked, he can come play for ACE. We will turn him into a lean mean fighting machine then we can GvG you guys and he can get his revenge.

Now for the sake of remaining on topic. LONG LIVE FORGE RUNS!

Poised · Jun 21, 2005, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Well the most obvious solution to creating a newbie friendly arena experience, would be to open an arena in pre searing, all the armor, both starter and quested, are basically equal in power, and the "uber" charr weapon drops, really wont unbalance anything, since their damage ratios are rather pathetic.
This way, the pre searing arena would provide a nice intro to GW PvP, and the post searing arena would be the playground for anyone who isnt new to the game, and knows how to get and use high level skills/armor/weapons.
No change needed to Lornars pass or the arena requirements, all we need is a pre searing arena, and noone can complain about unfairness.

Lestat Requiem · Jun 21, 2005, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Lol a run would take about 1 day to make sucessfully , beside in one day u can make Beacons ==> droknars way more easyly with the missions

a friend made that ^^ 2 days , first char he made ^^

eA-Zaku · Jun 21, 2005, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Why the hell is Camp Rankor in the middle anyways? Ever thought of that? New area my ass. It's there because it connects the Southern Shiverpeaks with the Northern Shiverpeaks. Arenanet intentionally made Forge runs a possibility, and it is meant to be used. It is not an exploit, so get used to it. You don't see me complaining about "LFG mission" when I want to get to Granite Citadel from a mission area.

KaPe · Jun 22, 2005, 12:15 AM // 00:15

"You kicked someone off your guild because they asked you for money for some armor? Then you turned him out on his own and were like go farm your own money?!"

Ok, let's see, someone joins your guild and want money for armor he/she shouldn't even *see* not to mention wear. That would be... annoying. Sure people support one another, but for items at their level. So, if I want "Max DMG Sword with l33t Stats, 100k" does it mean guild should give me money? Definately not.